Posts by Sea Breeze

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

Sea Breeze

Easy Prompt,

Your logic is fine. It is your presupposition that is faulty. In the bible, death means separation, not non existence.

For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord:

Instead, I say that we are confident and willing to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Cor. 5: 8

That is not a resurrection. In the bible, not only is the body is spoken of using pronouns. But, the soul and the spirit of man is assigned personhood as well.

BTTT, obviously fire which of this physical life would have at least a different affect on an eternal soul than it would on real flesh and blood.

But, I think it is a mistake to believe that Jesus' detailed adjectives about the torment, anguish, gnashing of teeth ...of eternal duration would be strictly symbolic. At the very minimum it could mean conscious eternal separation from God with the absence of anything good (outer darkness). At the maximum, it could mean exactly what Jesus said that it did.

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

Sea Breeze

@enoughisenough

the dead know nothing at all - Eccl. 9: 5

It is unwise to take a philosophical book from the OT written strictly from a carnal or physical stand point and apply it as a corrector of Jesus words.

Eccl. 10: 19 "money is the answer to everything".

Why not make a Christian doctrine out of Eccl. 10: 19 too?

35

Is WT Teachig on Hell Biblical?

by Sea Breeze in

i guess you could say jesus was the first christian, since he was the christ.

and as the first christian, jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure.

but, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

Sea Breeze

I guess you could say Jesus was the first Christian, since he was the Christ.

And as the first Christian, Jesus spoke more about hell that any other biblical figure. But, he is also the figure that said that he didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it.

So with verses like these:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels - Mt. 25 :31

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt. 10: 28

What are we to think? What did the first believers think on this topic? Yes, it is a hard teaching. One, that most Christians wouldn't mind if it wasn't part of Christianity. But, if you believe that Jesus resurrected himself from the dead like he predicted that he would, why would we doubt anything he said??

Would it be "in character" for Jesus to allow people to believe something false for 1800 years until a man who believed he was named in scripture as "that faithful servant" appointed over all of humanity (C T Russell), was born and corrected Jesus by announcing that hell was actually cold, & not hot?

What say you?

16

Theocratic Warfare

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

most of us know what theocratic warfare means but maybe very few people reading this forum might never heard of theocratic warfare.

can you give them some examples of theocratic warfare?

.

Sea Breeze

Householder: Are you here to change my religion?

JW: No, we are just here to promote bible reading.

2

Shock Poll: 39% of JW's Do Not Beleive in Absolute Moral Standards

by Sea Breeze in

i found this statistic (and others) surprising.

from pew research:.

.

Sea Breeze

I found this statistic (and others) surprising. From Pew Research:

83

Do You Think Trump Is Done?

by minimus in

jw
friends

certain forces appear to be trying to make sure donald trump never runs for president again.

some republicans are clearly abandoning trump and of course the democratic press has been saying trump is done!

is trump’s goose cooked?

Sea Breeze

11

Greek and antecedents (draft)

by Blotty in

natural antecedents (essay) + meanings to certain words.

i posted about 5 months ago a study done by daniel wallace called “greek grammar and the holy spirit” (see: source), which i have cited numerous times since – which focuses heavily on greek antecedents.

ending), and she (fem.

Sea Breeze

Daniel B. Wallace is a life-long advocate of the Critical Text pioneered by our now infamous occult dabbling unsaved bible critics Westcott and Hort.

Millions of Christians simply reject the Critical Text altogether and stick with the Majority Text which enjoys a 95% agreement among extant manuscripts.

He is also the senior editor of the NET bible. Here is a critique of his work on the NET bible :

https://www.bible-researcher.com/net.html

And Fosters Theological Reflections might be better named Fosters Heretical Reflections since Mr. Foster is a Jehovah's Witness.

72

Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 in

na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .

nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.

god, who is over all, be praised forever.

Sea Breeze

@ Easy Prompt

Ecclesiastes 9:4,5

"For as respects whoever is joined to all the living there exists confidence, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all..."

Thanks for quoting Eccl. - A philosophical work that showcases life “under the sun”. In others words a strictly physical existence.

EP,

Are you equally prepared to live your life according to the clear biblical declaration also found in Ecclesiastes :

”money is the answer for everything”

Please get some sound biblical education instead of from grifters like Russell aka Mr. Miracle Wheat.

72

Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 in

na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .

nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.

god, who is over all, be praised forever.

Sea Breeze

I can see why theologians do not like Ezek. 18:4ff. Doesn’t fit their theology at all.

Theologians like all scriptures, they just don't like the heretical definitions and mind games that heretics play with important biblical terms, like "death" for instance.

In the bible, death simply means separation. The soul that sins will die (become separated from it's body.)

This is the biblcal definition of death clearly established in describing Rachael's death in Gen. 35: 18.

When Rachel's soul became separated from her body, she died. The same will happen to each of us when our soul becomes separated from our body. We will die....become separated from out body. We will join the dearly departed.

Repeatedly in the Bible, people are referred to as “souls” (Exodus 31:14; Proverbs 11:30), especially in contexts that focus on the value of human life and personhood or on the concept of a “whole being” (Psalm 16:9-10; Ezekiel 18:4; Acts 2:41; Revelation 18:13).

The human soul seems to be distinct from the heart (Deuteronomy 26:16; 30:6) and the spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12) and the physical mind (Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27). The human soul is created by God (Jeremiah 38:16). It can be strong or unsteady (2 Peter 2:14); it can be lost or saved (James 1:21; Ezekiel 18:4). We know that the human soul needs atonement (Leviticus 17:11) and is the part of us that is purified and protected by the truth and the work of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:22). Jesus is the great Shepherd of souls (1 Peter 2:25).

Dead souls can remember, speak, have feelings and experience comfort or pain. See Rev. 6: 9-11.

See SOUL in Websters 1828 dictionary.

Also Death in same dictionary:

"In theology, perpetual separation from God, and eternal torments; called the second death"

The idea that theologians "do not like" Ez. 18: 4 is ludicrous and is an easily falsified conclusion.

Thanks for highlighting one of WT's "proof" scriptures on Annihilation.

12

Will the G.B. ever give a "new light" on Romans 6:7?

by BoogerMan in

jehovah' witnesses are taught to believe that romans 6:7 refers to a person's own literal death:.

watchtower may 15th 1982, pp.

8,9 - "the bible explains that at death a person is set free or released from any sins he committed.

Sea Breeze

Thanks for posting that Blondie.

The WT assumes a presupposition that is identical to atheism (materialism) in regards to humanity - the physical you is all there is to "you". This isn't biblical, and is a fairly recent addition to societal consciousness. Pronouns denote personhood and pronouns are used throughout the bible in respect to our soul and also our spirit - the immaterial parts of you. But, all three are you.... as far as the bible is concerned.

Because of that, the WT has to do a "work around" when acknowledging the fact that the death in Romans 6: 7 isn't physical. Oh, it suits their purposes just fine for the R&F to believe that it is... but even an idgit can see from context that the death in Romans 6: 7 isn't physical. So, they use the time honored method of calling something in the bible they don't like - symbolic. Envoking the symbolic card is a lazy man's (or worse) theology.

Biblically, a person (their spirit) literally perishes when they are born again.... which is the ONLY way a person can be a Christian. The sin nature we inheirit cannot be rehabilitated. It must die. When we agree to let that happen, God gives us a spirt that is begotten by God himself. We become his progeny.

But here's the rub: It is only a downpayment (ernest) on the full inheritance when our soul and body is redeemed as well - at the resurrection. In this life, all we get is a new spirit which cannot sin, because it is begotten of God. When we worsip in the spirit, that is acceptable to God. If we do it in the mind (soul) or in the flesh, it is not interacted with by God. God interacts with our new spirit when we are born again. NT believers worship in spirit and truth.

So, the true meaning of Romans 6:7 isn't a symbolic death like WT reluctantly admits. It is a spiritual death of your spirit. So, even though your spirit is barely discernable to most people because we spend most of our life in the flesh, it is enough for God to interact with you as his very own child and redeem your soul and body as well...in due course.

I don't want to sound preachy or like a holy roller, but this is exactly what is going on in Romans 6: 7.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:
and he [his spirit] cannot sin, because he is born of God". - 1 John 3: 9